Agent Essentials

Shop Talk - The Real Estate Agent Podcast

Real Estate Agent Podcast 23: Corey Wesley

Corey Wesley breaks down his job as a Mortgage Loan Originator, including why every great real estate team has one.
July 10, 2019

Corey Wesley breaks down his job as a Mortgage Loan Originator, including why every great real estate team has one.

Any loan officer is going to give you the same answer. We have the best rates. We are the best. What separates a good loan officer is their focus on their customer's needs, and their willingness to go the extra mile in a real estate transaction.

Corey Wesley

About This Episode

Corey Wesley is a Mortgage Loan Originator with Cherry Creek Mortgage Company in Denver. After a career as an engineer, Corey fell into real estate and has never looked back.

In our talk, we cover the financial side of real estate and break down the necessity of having a great mortgage lender. As much a sales job as being a real estate agent, a great mortgage lender can round out a powerhouse real estate team. 

You can find more about Corey at

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Episode Transcript

JON: Hello and welcome to Shop Talk: The Real Estate Show. I'm Jon Forisha and joining me today is Corey Wesley, Mortgage Loan Originator with Cherry Creek Mortgage Company. Thanks for joining me Corey.

COREY: Hey, thanks Jon for having me. I'm super stoked to be on your podcast here and talk about what I'm so passionate about and let's get into it.

JON: Awesome. Okay, so let's just start a little with your background. How did you get into mortgage lending?

COREY: Well, I guess if I had to put it directly, I would say mortgage lending found me. I didn't find it. My degrees are in mechanical engineering and I have an MBA in economics and finance. I began my career in the engineering world and then worked my way up into kind of lower mid level management. I was in that career path for about six or seven years and with the increased responsibility with each subsequent job and position that I took, I just found that I disliked it more and more. And it got to a point where one day I just kind of went toe to toe with my manager and that was it. I was fired. So, it was honestly the best thing that ever happened to me. I'm not a quitter. I'm not the type of person that would ever, you know, kind of leave a job or something like that, but to, find myself unemployed was, was honestly a line in the sand in my life. So it was about a month or two later, I got a phone call from a branch manager with my company, with Cherry Creek Mortgage. I'd never heard of this person. I'd never met this person before. Uh, we met for coffee and, um, that was that. The rest is history. I saw an opportunity for myself to do something that I love and that I was good at. So I just kind of took off from there. I got licensed and then learned the game and learn the business. 

JON: You're actually not the first guest who got fired and then, you know, went into a different line of work. So apparently sometimes it needs to be forced on you, I guess.

COREY: And you know, I think there's a reason for that. People who are real estate agents and loan officers are, they typically share a personality profile that most would call unemployable. So I am not surprised to hear that's pretty common.

JON: Yeah. So from engineering to loan officer. It's not a common transition there.

COREY: I suspect engineers typically are not the most social and most sales driven people. They're more data analytical numbers, um, which I do have that skillset. I just don't enjoy doing that, you know, like personality wise. Yeah.

JON: Did engineering prepare you in any interesting ways for being in real estate?

COREY: Yes, it did. Actually, engineering is a lot of, um, when you go to school for Engineering, it's a lot of math, science, physics, chemistry. When you apply it in your engineering position in your engineering career, it equates to a lot of problem solving, figuring out different ways to solve, uh, to solve problems and whether it be design or application. Um, there's a lot of that that translates over to mortgage lending. Um, there's a lot of problem solving involved, especially when it comes to the financing piece of it. So, um, that kind of, I feel like prepared me pretty well for my current, my current career.

JON: Sure. I can see that. Okay. So your title is Mortgage Loan Originator. What exactly does that mean?

COREY: That's a great question. We are largely a sales position. Our job as loan officers, at least for the mortgage company sector, are um, tasked with going out and finding our own business. I know in my company, in, in my position, um, my book of business is my own. If I don't go out and find clients and get clients, I don't get a paycheck. I think it's a little bit differently in banks. I can't speak for the, the, you know, brick and mortar banks. Um, they have a lot of walk in traffic, but that's not what we do as a mortgage company. Okay. So as salespeople we have to go out and find our own business and build relationships and build trust with the public and, and find our own business. Once we do, then, uh, the other side of our, our job is a lot of deal structuring. Um, a lot of problem solving. Once a client is under contract for a home, it's a lot of, um, it's an advisory, an educational role to our clients. Um, there's a million different ways to finance your residential asset and it's my job to help kind of direct and guide my clients to what's going to be best for them in their financial goals.

JON: So how come a real estate agent can't do that job as well as their own? Like what makes a mortgage lender necessary other than the licensing and regulatory aspect of it?

COREY: I think real estate agents are more adept at the actual real property and, and showing them homes and understanding what their client is really looking for and guiding them through that process. The inspection process, uh, of the home, um, different market in any given city or any given market, um, understanding the contract and the contract law. What I do is more the finance side. I facilitate that deal. I facilitate their buyers being able to actually close and obtain that property. Especially in a market like Denver where the lowest home prices are nearing the 400 mark, in the metro area. We're not seeing much on the market that's below 400. Most people don't have the means of just writing a check for that or bring in a, you know, a mattress full of cash. Yeah. You know, so that's where the financing side comes in. Uh, and actually structuring that deal for the client.

JON: So you mentioned it's a sales position. Are you paid on commission like a real estate agent?

COREY: I am paid on commission. Just like a real estate agent. Yes.

JON: Interesting. Okay. What makes one more mortgage company different from another?

COREY: That's a great question. I think there are, obviously there are good mortgage companies and there are bad mortgage companies, but I think really what defines my company and what defines Cherry Creek Mortgages, our culture, uh, from the upper management right on down, I, I have direct access to the people that are, are running the show at my company from a management perspective. Yeah. Um, and I, I just love having that access because in any given real estate transaction, um, you know, things can go wrong or you know, surprises can happen. And to have my team at that level be so committed to each one of our, the loan officers in my company, uh, nationwide, it's just, I think it's just, uh, a great asset to have for me as a loan officer. Yeah. Um, other than the culture, um, I really liked the market focus of Cherry Creek Mortgage. And again, I've only ever been with this company, so I don't know how other companies do business internally and what their cultures are like and whatnot. I can only speak for myself and my company, but our real focus is the home buyer. You know, we're not a refinance shop, although we do refinances for our clients. That's not our focus. Our focus is on the purchase money transaction and helping real estate agents and their clients really succeed, especially in a competitive market like Denver, Colorado.

JON: Okay. How can you tell a good mortgage company or a good lender from a bad one? I mean everyone, it seems like they all talk about they have the best rates. You know, they all sort of boast the same perks. So how can you tell a good one?

COREY: Yup. Ask any loan officer or any mortgage company and you're going to get the same answer. We have the best rates. We have the best service. We are the best. Yeah. Um, it's a sales job. We have to, we have to up sell ourselves. Um, again, I think there are good companies and bad companies and there are good loan officers and bad loan officers. Um, and those, those four things can sort of overlap a little bit. Um, I know there are really good loan officers that I questioned why they work for the companies they do. Sure. I think really what separates a good company and a good loan officer is really their focus on their customer's needs, their responsiveness, uh, their willingness to really go the extra mile in a real estate transaction, uh, to serve their clients. And from the consumer standpoint, I suppose it's pretty difficult to really be discerning upfront whether or not a good loan officer is with a good company and whether or not they're going to be treated right. Um, I think it really is gonna come down to the first conversation or two that you have with your loan officer. Do they make you feel comfortable? Do they make you feel, um, like you're a priority and do they make you feel like, uh, do they give you the confidence that they're an expert in their field? And I think it's just a discernment thing for each individual client.

JON: Okay. So getting into the relationship between mortgage lenders and real estate agents, obviously there's a lot of synergy there. Can you describe that for us? How does that work? Working with real estate agents?

COREY: Yeah, so most of my sales activity is geared toward the real estate agent rather than consumer direct or the general public. Obviously I do engage in some of that, um, but most of my sales activity is geared toward earning the trust and loyalty of real estate professionals in the state of Colorado where I'm licensed. Um, when a consumer decides that he or she is going to make a real estate transaction, whether it's buy a home or sell a home, 95% of their time. I don't know if that's an actual statistic, but 95% of the time their first call is to a real estate agent. I may be a bit biased here as a mortgage loan officer, but I believe if you're, if you've made the decision to buy a home, I think your first call should be to the guy who's going to get you the money and tell you how much you can afford and help you through that process first. Because here, I'll tell you why the first call, like I said, is usually to the real estate agent. And then after the real estate agent does their sales pitch, the first question is, have you spoken to a lender yet? That is their first question because that real estate agent knows if that home buyer can't qualify for financing, they're going to be wasting their time putting them in their car, driving them all over through Denver traffic to find them a home. Right. Um, so I'm the very next guy in line for most people. Uh, when it, when it comes time for, uh, you know, they make that decision to purchase a home. So, um, going back to the question, that's kind of the synergy between realtor and lender. Um, most of my activity is geared toward earning the realtor's trust so that when they get that client, I can be the first one there to really get them started in the process. Sure.

JON: So I know, I mean if you, if you went to an agent first and then typically they have a list of, you know, their preferred lenders that they go to. So say I go to an agent, they ask if I'm prequalified I say no, they would send me to you. If somebody started with you, do you have a list of agents you would send them to afterwards once they are qualified?

COREY: Well, if, if John realtor refers his client to me, it's absolutely imperative that I make sure that that client, unless that client becomes super unsatisfied with that realtor, that I refer them back and make sure that connections with the highest integrity there. Um, in that relationship, if I, if and when I get that consumer direct opportunity, my friends oftentimes come to me first because they know, uh, I'm great at what I do and they know they're going to be well taken care of and they're going to get the best deal. I have the opportunity then to refer that person back to, um, some of what I think are the best realtors in the Denver market. Um, those realtors that I've built that longstanding trust and relationship with, and that's an opportunity for me to refer back up to them. Um, so that's sort of how I choose, um, you know, who I refer my clients to once they're, you know, prequalified or preapproved. Yeah.

JON: All right. So let's talk about the prequalification. Why is that important?

COREY: Well, it's important to know whether or not the homes that you're looking at are affordable to you as an individual. It's a good idea to have some sense of what your monthly payment is going to be, what your cash investment is going to be, what the source of that cash investment can be, whether it be a gift or if you're borrowing for your 401k or if it's out of your checking or savings account. Um, all of those questions can be answered through the preapproval process so that once that buyer gets into the real estate agent's vehicle to go look at homes, they can be confident, not only in their price point but confident their lender can get the deal done and get them to closing on time and under budget. That's always my goal.

JON: So why would you say it's important for an agent to find a lender that they enjoy working with?

COREY: That's a great question. I think it's very important from the realtor's perspective to have someone that they can trust that they can call at 8:00 PM on a Sunday night. If an offer needs to be, you know, rushed in, um, someone they can work well with and communicate well with on the phone and both in person. And really have that synergy to where they understand, um, the followup process. Each home buyer is going to be a bit different in how they respond to our followup and to have that communication and cooperation in client retention and lead generation. I tell my realtors, look, listen, I'm a trained sales professional as well. Use me as such. Let me help you in this market. Generate more leads and more business so that we can be the ones that are helping more and more home buyers and homeowners buy and sell their home and maintain their real estate asset. I think, uh, it's very important to have a lender just like it's important for me to be able to work well with the agents that I do business with. Um, I don't do business with every real estate agent that comes to me. I'm a bit selective there. There's a lot of aspects of the quality of the service they provide, um, the ethical integrity of what they're doing and how they're treating their clients and how they're treating the transaction itself. Um, and there's an aspect of how hungry are they? I don't want to work with people who aren't hungry in this business and want to grow. I'm not talking about how many deals you did last year. I'm talking about how many deals you want to do this year and if the number of deals you want to do this year is the same or less than what you want to do last year, chances are we're not going to be a good fit. As a, as a sales professional, I'm, I'm an always in growth mode.

JON: How do you decide who not to work with that? I mean, you know, it sounds like you've got some criteria, but how do you determine that?

COREY: Yeah, I think number one, if the relationship isn't symbiotic and mutually beneficial, that's a big red flag for me. You know, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna spend a lot of time with, um, trying to pursue relationships that aren't going to be fruitful for both parties. Um, that being said, I don't want to focus so much on the negative of that as much as I do of the positive of when I do meet a real estate agent that shares the same values and same ambition and same kind of goals and direction as I do. Um, that's, that's a relationship that I want to pursue. Rather than, um, I don't, I don't go about my sales activity finding who I don't want to work with. It's more about opportunities to really grow and develop as a team and a partnership. Um, and, and that's how I as a lender look at that realtor lender relationship is as a partnership, not, not so much as, uh, some, some realtors refer to me as a vendor. Um, I don't view myself as a vendor as much as I do a team player with you in your business. And, and I think that attitude and approach has been a tremendous asset for the realtor partnerships that I have and the realtors that I work with.

JON: How can you help an agent build their business?

COREY: I have a lot to say about this topic here, but I'll try to keep it concise. I think first and foremost, being able to communicate well and develop a good relationship very rapidly without realtors. Home buyer, a lot of times a realtor will find a client at an open house or they'll get a, a floor call or a call from one that, or one of their listing signs. Um, and they're in a situation where they don't know their client that well either. Sometimes they do, sometimes it's a personal friend or family, but a lot of times that realtor is just starting to build a relationship with that buyer home buyer to that client too. So it's, I think it's super crucial. I view the most important thing I do is to help cross sell that real estate agent build confidence and the pair of us as a team and really rapidly develop trust with that home buyer. When I get the call from a realtor or a home buyer, uh, to either, you know, receive a referral or start working with a home buyer on the preapproval process. I have just a short amount of time, maybe one or two phone calls, a couple of emails, a couple of text messages to develop rapport and establish a sense of trust that they're going to be well taken care of, um, that I'm going to be giving them good advice and that I am an expert in my field, very short amount of time. Um, so I think it's, it's important to have a lender that can communicate that way and that has those skills. Yeah. Um, other ways that I help my partners grow their business is, um, I helped them at open houses. Uh, I helped them with conversations that they have with their friends that, you know, I know a lot of times I've helped convert leads that that started as not even a lead at all. If it was just a conversation we had at happy hour or at the ballgame, you know, and opening up those opportunities because a lot of people in this market, even though we've got the Internet and we've got, you know, information at the tip of our fingertips, um, a lot of people still think you need a 20% down payment or that you need to have, you know, make a hundred grand a year or there's a lot of misconceptions. So just helping them have those conversations with their sphere, um, their, their friends, their network really opens up a lot of opportunities for them to, you know, go a little bit deeper with their clients and say, Hey, maybe we, it's worth a shot looking into this a little, you know, a little bit deeper. Um, there's just so many ways I could, I could talk for hours on this, on how I help my realtors kind of grow their, that's great business. But I think, I mean those are kind of the two just building trust and you know, helping them have better conversations with their sphere. Sure, Yup.

JON: Yeah. Cause you have the financial background, you know, you have the financial knowledge that real estate agents might be lacking. So it's nice for you to be able to come in and fill that in for them.

COREY: Yeah. Like, Hey, we've got this program that doesn't require a down payment or did,you know, you could do this with your 401k to help with the down payment. Just millions of different things and uh, you know, bullet points that are, that help them have better conversations and generate more interest in, especially with millennials. You know, we're the generation that we're all buying our first homes now. Yep. Um, you know, the 25 to 35 year olds and, um, like I said, there's a lot of misconceptions out there.

JON: Absolutely. Yeah. You mentioned open houses. What do you do at open houses?

COREY: You know, a lot of times in Denver when a realtor holds an open house, obviously what they're trying to do is generate more leads, generate more contacts, generate more business and um, I help them again, have those conversations with the people that walk through the door, uh, and kind of handle the traffic and generate a relationship, you know, with the, with the people that are in that neighborhood looking at those homes and help them capture those leads. Yeah. Um, there's a lot of different ways and strategies. I always defer to the agent what they want to do and how, what they want to employ as a, a method of generating more contacts, but, um, ultimately on there to help them with those conversations and, you know, generate a little more interest in, hopefully build some relationship with people that walked through the door. Like I said, in a short amount of time.

JON: Definitely. Yeah. When I bought my house, um, at the end of the transaction, my lender is actually the one that stayed in contact. My agent, I haven't heard from her since, but the lender, she sends out a monthly newsletter. She gives me a call every now and then. She's great.

COREY: That is another very important point. Like I said, there's a lot, there's a million different ways I help my realtors generate more business and that's one of them. A lot of realtors are not good at a systematic follow up. Yeah. And that's where I can, I can't tell you how many times I've kept in touch with my past clients and I had the opportunity to call their agent up and say, Hey, have you spoken to Joey lately? Um, he's, you know, I called them to see if he needed to refinance, but he's thinking about listing his home and buying, you know, upgrading and just those, those opportunities there through my, my systematic lead generation, systematic follow up, um, really helps the agent, uh, is a benefit to them.

JON: Sure. Yeah. So how do you do it? How do you do a systematic process?

COREY: Yup. I try to, and I'm, I actually just hired a coach to help me, um, kind of shore up some of the holes in my systematic follow up. But I do, one of the most important things is I do an annual mortgage review with all of my clients just to be sure that they're not overpaying for their, uh, for their home financing. Markets are always changing and shifting. Um, loan programs are, you know, constantly expanding and constantly evolving. Um, and each home buyer that I work with has a completely different scenario, right? So each year I have a little notification that pops up that says, Hey, this is the one year anniversary of So-and-so. Um, I will review that loan file from the previous year and compare it to what programs and what interest rates and what opportunities exist in our world today. And oftentimes there's, you know, an opportunity to save them money on their, on their mortgage, either by doing a refinance or eliminating their mortgage insurance or any number of things. So that's one of the most strategic areas that I focus on is that annual mortgage review. It's helpful for both me, the realtor, but most importantly, my past clients. If I know they, you know, recently got married, I'll write that down, send them an anniversary card, just things like that. Um, I like to put on a happy hour or I get together every once in awhile and I'll invite, you know, maybe 10 or 20 of my past clients to be a part of that depending on what part of town it's in. Um, just things like that. Little little things that helped me to keep in touch and really establish that longterm relationship. I like to tell my clients that I'm, you know, I'm your lender for life if you'll, if you'll permit me. Um, and, and that's something that I, I really try to focus on. Yeah.

JON: And a little bit goes a long way with that kind of stuff. I mean, people appreciate just being involved with, you know, being invited out for happy hour or something simple like that.

COREY: Totally. And just as a word of encouragement to any realtors who are new in the business or you know, have been for, you know, one or two years. I can tell you from experience, any time I've made a followup call to one of my past clients, I've never been hung up on. They've never been upset about it. In fact, most of the time they say, thank you so much for the phone call. A lot of times as sales professionals, and especially if you're newer in the, in the sales, uh, sector, we get call reluctance and a little word of encouragement to newer sales professionals that those follow up calls are often welcome mostly. Yeah.

JON: Yeah. I mean it's the fear of the unknown, right? Because what if you call and catch them at a bad time, but really nobody's gonna be upset about, you know, you just calling to make sure everything's okay.

COREY: Nope, not at all. Especially if you already have that relationship to whatever degree you have it. Yeah. That's great.

JON: So how do you stay on top of industry trends? It seems like the way that real estate moves, a lot of the big impactful stuff will hit you first before it hits an agent.

COREY: I think that's accurate and it's a little bit like drinking out of a fire hydrant that's lost its top. It's constantly, constantly changing. My company does a great job of keeping us notified of every little change, whether it be regulatory or a change with one of our investors or a change in, you know, Fannie Mae guidelines or FHA guidelines or whatever it may be. Um, we, there's two or three emails a day and I save every single one of them so that I can revert back to what those changes are and, and stay sharp and stay, you know, uh, relevant to the current industry trends and, and standards. So I rely a lot on my companies, um, you know, systematic method of keeping us informed. Yeah. Um, as, as a continuous student of this game, I also like to read articles written by other industry professionals and, um, listen to podcasts and stuff like that. Just to keep that outside perspective. I never want to find myself in a place where my company is the only knowledge that I have of the industry. I, I always want to have outside perspective. And you know, see what other people are saying about the market and about the, about the trends in the mortgage industry. Yeah.

JON: So what can agents do to make your life easier?

COREY: I would say for me personally, I appreciate loyalty in this business and I think if I do a great job for you and your clients time and time and time again, um, it's nice to know that that is appreciated and recognized. Um, that to me, I place a very high value on that and that's part of my vetting process when it comes to who do I want to build a longterm relationship with and who do I not is really that loyalty aspect. I know I do a great job and I love it when my partnerships, my real estate partnerships recognize that and, and appreciate it. I think the other thing is, you know, just be, just be good at communicating what you know about our client the same way that I'm going to be good at about communicating what I find out about our client. And just having that open line of communication where we can call or text or email each other, uh, pretty much anything. It really grows into kind of a friendship, you know, after awhile. Um, just having that open communication.

JON: So how should a home buyer shop around for the best mortgage?

COREY: Well, it depends on what that person's, uh, kind of values are and what they place the most value on what they consider to be the best. Uh, the best mortgage is very subjective. Um, it depends on, uh, whether you place a high value on the interest rate or a high value on the overall cost of the loan or a higher value on how can I buy this home with the least amount of cash and, uh, you know, cash invested in the transaction or is it, do I want someone who's going to coach me and talk me through this and make me feel comfortable and ensure that the deal isn't gonna fall apart, uh, and really do everything they can to set the transaction up for success before they even make an offer on a home. A lot of people, they place a too high of value on the interest rate alone. And not enough on the other aspects of it because I can tell you that I would say probably 90% of the time Cherry creek Mortgage is going to be a very competitive or the most competitive when it comes to interest rate, but always, but we're always going to be very close because we're all pulling from the same pool of investors in the same pool of capital in the market. And while different mortgage companies might have different pricing and cost structures, we're all going to be pretty close. I'm really, I'm a loan officer that I do not compete on interest rate. I just don't, not at all. Those conversations rarely come up from my clients. And I hear, um, a lot of times I hear other loan officers sort of complain about price shoppers and they, they got great shops and stuff like that. I occasionally have that, but not that often because I focus, my service is focused on, um, getting your deal set up for success right from the beginning, educating my clients so that they understand what they're getting into, what the home buying process is all about. Um, and, and by the time they get ready to really lock in their deal, I've, I've, I've earned that and I've won that relationship 90% of the time or maybe even more so. Personally. I don't, I don't play that game. I know other people do.

JON: Are there any misconceptions that you have come across, as to your part in the real estate transaction that you feel like you want to set straight?

COREY: Yeah, I think one of the biggest objections that we've experienced in the industry lately is there's this fear of, you know, 2008, 2009, the mortgage backed security bubble wasn't that long ago in our minds. Um, and I think there's this fear of, you know, in the Denver market, is it a bubble again, because we've seen prices increase so rapidly over the past five, six, seven, eight years. None of us has a crystal ball, not even Alan Greenspan who was the treasury secretary, uh, prior to that bubble happening, um, saw that coming. You know, a few people did, but, but, but they were, there weren't that many. So none of us have a crystal ball. What I see, uh, in the market trends in Denver is we've got, depending on which article you read, 40 to 60,000 people moving here every year, and we're a city of just around 3 million. So we've still got this huge influx of people. Builders still can't keep up. We still have some bad legislation on the books that prevent the market from responding to a shortage in housing supply. All of these things come together and I see prices for the near future just continuing to rise, although I think at a little bit slower rate than we've seen in 2014, 15 and 16. So, um, I think the fact that we've got a little better understanding of how that mortgage back bubble happened, um, we can kind of, uh, be a little bit more cautious about, and it's good that people are cautious about it. But as far as housing supply and housing demand in Denver, I don't see that changing drastically in the next five years. Great answer.

JON: All right, this is my last question when I ask of all of my guests, if you could go back to the beginning of your career, what is one thing you would've done differently?

COREY: I think the one thing I would have done differently is when I first got licensed and got working in this business, uh, I had what, what my branch manager and others in my company said was a very high aptitude for sales, but absolutely no training. Um, as a, as a former engineer and project manager, I, I really didn't use any sales skills at all. So just using what I know now, I would have asked different questions. I would have reached out to different people in the industry. Uh, I would have taken a different approach to learning and developing those sales skills and most importantly, employing those sales skills I had kind of what I thought it was a slow start, uh, in my, um, business development and lead generation in the beginning. Um, I didn't know what I was doing. I had a really good teacher when it came to the technical side and taking a loan application and structuring deals and I was already kind of a technical person anyway. Um, but as far as building relationships and learning how people in the market in industry respond to that, I guess knowing what I know now, I would've approached that a little bit differently actually quite a bit differently to be honest with you. Yeah.

JON: I mean it sounds like it's a sort of a ramping up of your client base anyway. So I'm sure, you know, most people have sort of a rocky start in this business.

COREY: Yeah. And I've, I've seen, I've seen people get licensed as realtors and loan officers and six months later they're not in the business. Yep. And I've seen the very opposite of that. I've seen meteoric rises and really those are the, those are the people that are coachable. They ask the right questions and the right advice and they aren't afraid to go use it consistently and, and you know, fiercely really go attack their market. Those are the people that really just kind of, they just fire out of the gate and are successful very quickly. So it's all a mindset and an approach and it's a lot of perseverance, a lot of persistence. And, um, just you have to stick with it and be persistent.

JON: That's a great note to end on. All right, Corey, thank you so much for joining me. If somebody is looking at trying to get a mortgage here in the Denver area, how would they get a hold of you?

COREY: I would say go to my website and I have to be careful here. There's a lot of compliance stuff here. So I'm gonna say go to my website, All of my contact info and mandatory disclaimers will be on there. Give me a call. I would love to answer your questions, have a conversation, um, schedule an appointment, whatever it is you need. If you're curious about what programs exist, love to help. And I work with some of the best realtors in the Denver Market as far as negotiating and coaching, stuff like that. So I'm happy to refer that side of the business too.

JON: Awesome. All right, well thank you.