Real Estate Agent Podcast 15: Lars Hedenborg
85% of real estate agents don't have an assistant, so they're either not busy enough to get an assistant or they're not doing the things they need to be doing.
About This Episode
Lars Hedenborg joined the world of real estate in 2007. From the start he had a successful business, but he was working so many hours a week that he didn't have much time to spend with his family. Knowing there had to be a better way, he started building a team and scaled his business to the behemoth it is today.
Nowadays he only works one day a week on his real estate business. He runs Real Estate B School, where he coaches other agents how to scale their own businesses more intelligently and efficiently.
Learn more at https://www.realestatebschool.com/
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JON: Hello and welcome to Shop Talk: The Real Estate Show. I'm Jon Forisha, and joining me today is Lars Hedenborg, founder of Real Estate B School and host of the Business Freedom podcast. Thanks for joining me, Lars.
LARS: Yeah, Jon. Thanks for having me. This'll be fun.
JON: Absolutely. So you left your corporate career in 2007. Why did you choose to become a real estate agent?
LARS: Man, that's a good question. I'll tell you in late 2007 I was wondering why I left Corporate America because I didn't really know what the job of real estate agent was. You know, when I look back on my corporate career, every job I had post college, I was sort of looking for, you know, I just didn't like what the path looked like ahead of me, you know, and it finally came down to a guy that recruited me out of our corporate division in New Jersey. I had the dream job. I mean, I literally wanted to be in charge of acquisitions and strategy for an aerospace company. When I left, I worked for Bear Stearns as an analyst. That's the job I wanted and I had that job here in Charlotte. The guy that recruited me found out that he had pancreatic cancer and died within six months.
JON: Oh wow.
LARS: And it was this moment for me where I was like, it took him 33 years in the same company to finally start enjoying life a little bit where he just bought his house in Hilton Head. He was just beginning to spend some time down there and be with family. He was in his late sixties. And I was like, there's no way. Like there's no way I'm going to do that, you know? And I had an interest in real estate and I had invested some in New Jersey, where I moved from and I just had an affinity for it. And that's why I made the comment that when I first got into real estate, I didn't know what I was getting into. You get your license and you're just completely ill equipped to do the job of a real estate agent. Like, nobody tells you at all when you're going through licensing, what to do when they mail you the license.
JON: Yeah. You're just going to tossed into it.
LARS: Yeah. And you know, that's where I realized that for me, I was married in late 2006. We had our first child in late 2007 and that was my first year in real estate. And I was like, I cannot do this and be a good husband and be a good father. And so then I just said, I doubled down on doing the things to get busy. I sold 27 homes in my first nine months and then 44 homes my next year.
LARS: But it was like seven days a week. I was, you know, failing miserably and everything, buying leads that were, you know, too expensive. But I was committed to build it in a way where I had leverage, you know, and I wasn't going to do the jobs of a real estate agent. Like, I wanted to be the guy that put the systems together to make it easier for the people to do the job of real estate agent. And so that's where, you know, the whole journey began. But it was, you know, it was an idea that I could create it my own way. Like I could have time and money freedom if I can put these systems together in the right way.
JON: So how'd you create your own way? I mean, how did you shift things from working so many hours a week to now?
LARS: Yeah, I mean, it was early on, I read a book from Dan Kennedy, and it was No BS Time Management for Entrepreneurs. And there was a chapter in the book where he takes you through an exercise. It's simple math. If I want to make half a million dollars a year, which is what I wanted to make pre-tax, I wanted to work about 2000 hours. I didn't want to work 2,500 or 3000. Like most real estate agents, some real estate agents work 3,500 hours, you know. So I wanted to work 2000 hours, and make 500 grand. It was 250 bucks an hour. That number to me was everything. Once I committed that number and I wrote it down on like 10 stickies and all different colors and I put it everywhere, most of the things I did all day long, were less than 50 bucks an hour. So every hour of the day except listing appointments and building a system or working on a marketing system, you know, except for those things, everything I was doing was spent on things that I could pay someone else to do for less than 50 bucks an hour. And that's just basic math. And you know, 85% of real estate agents don't have an assistant, you know, so they're either not busy enough to get an assistant or they're not doing the things they need to be doing to get busy enough to get an assistant. So to me it was just the basic math equation. And, you know, I knew I had never done sales before and I never had done marketing before and I never had built a business before, but I knew that, you know, we had a shared assistant at my corporate job and she booked my travel because I got paid more than she did, you know, and she was better at details than I was, so that made the first hire pretty easy, you know, a really good assistant.
JON: So as you alluded to, joining real estate in 2007 wasn't exactly the best timing. How did you weather the slow down as you're building your business?
LARS: You find out real quick that I wasn't going to go after my sphere to start, so I had no lead sources. So at the time I got really good at making offers on Craigslist. Like at the time you could still have clickable images in Craigslist and the market was sliding a bit in 2008. Our market was shifting me even before the end of 2008 where the financial crisis became obvious. I became a really good marketer and not rocket science marketing like, you know, free lists of distress sales.
LARS: And I would send them to a super simple landing page. They were back then, they would actually give you the accurate information and you would simply follow up with a phone call and just say, when's a good time? We can get together for 15 or 20 minutes and I can set up that search for you. There's no obligation at all. And that was it. I did that for three years, you know, so I sold probably like 125 homes in my first two and a half years just doing that alone. And that was before Boomtown. You know, I was one of the first clients for Boomtown, and then I took that offer to Boomtown and I created a landing page of all those distressed sales and they would now have forced registration, but back then they actually wanted to be on sites like that because there weren't a lot of them. Now there are like a gajillion sites in every market. But it was just, it was just doing, focusing, not, not paying attention to what was going on. I didn't watch the news. I didn't follow what other agents were doing. You know, I was in nine months, I sold more homes than any agent in my office that had, you know, years of experience on me because I was just generating leads and following up. And then I had a lead management system than I just did that for three years straight. And I increased my sales every year, you know, for my first three years.
JON: Wow. So I don't feel like Craigslist works the same way. Like I don't feel like you could necessarily build your real estate business through Craigslist nowadays.
LARS: Surprisingly, it does work. They tend to be lower price point, although surprisingly like if we still have a Craigslist system, we've turned that off. We don't, we don't do any home search leads anymore. But you could, you could make Craigslist work. It's surprising that people still go on Craigslist.
JON: It is.
LARS: You have to tell them to cut and paste. You know, we would get 40 phone calls a month on our listings that we advertised on Craigslist when we did it with a virtual assistant. So it was hot. It was anytime you can get a buyer to pick up the phone and call about a listing, that's a good lead. Yeah. So I would say craigslist still works. You know, we don't need buyer leads right now, so we don't, we don't do it. But, same thing with Facebook. You know, we got an eight to one return on Facebook last year. Just advertising, simple advertising for our listings, capturing their contact information via Facebook lead forms. So all those things still work. You're just competing with them, registering on 10 other sites.
JON: There's the follow up. This is more of it, right?
JON: So you're based in Charlotte, North Carolina, right?
LARS: That's right.
JON: All right. How has Charlotte's real estate market helped your growth?
LARS: You know, I think about that often. Especially as I try to help others scale their real estate businesses. You know, the fact that when the market, I mean our pricing went down around 20% overall when the market got really, really went bad in 2009, 10 and 11 were pretty tough. Generally speaking here, our roster got cut by 60%, which is good. I mean, it's a good cleansing. Now we have 15,000 agents. Back then we had 5,000, so we've tripled our roster. So I think it's easier to do better in a market where everyone thinks you can't sell real estate versus now everyone thinks they can start selling real estate. It's a good market. You know, we didn't go go down like crazy. There were neighborhoods. It's funny, I live in a neighborhood now where, a home sold for 1.5 at the peak. The guy I sold it for, my client bought it for 750, and I sold it for him for 520 back in like 1.5 to 520. And now the market, you know, the neighborhoods come back. Yeah. But there's some crazy stuff like that. But in general, you know, it's a really strong market. All the banking stuff that all the layoffs that happened in 2009 and 10, all of that, you know, we brought in a lot of sort of mid size companies since then. It's a really robust market. We still have people moving from the north, people moving from, you know, what do they call them, halfback, when they come halfway back into Florida and now they're coming to the Carolinas because we're close to the mountains, we're close to the beach. So it's going, I feel really, you know, that, that we're in a good market that people want to live in.
JON: Do you think you would have had the same career trajectory had you been in a different place?
LARS: I mean, I don't know. I started, you know, I look back at all the things I did to build my real estate business. You know, now we coach in every major market and secondary markets, resort markets and the systems still work. I just happened to, you know, I started radio when I probably was too early for me to start radio here and it worked at the time that I started it with the messaging started on radio with, you know, sometimes I think sometimes I'm jealous of folks that have a small market, you know, because they can afford, you can put up three billboards and everyone in town is going to see your billboards and it costs you 800 bucks a month to do it. I've put up billboards here. I have to put up 80 to get even close to the same exposure. It's like $30,000 a month, you know, TV here is crazy. So I think there's just pros and cons to each market. You know, some things that work here, you know, don't work in other markets and vice versa. But the same business principles work in every market. You know, you need to make money when you spend money. Like this novel concept that most real estate agents don't get. Like, if you're going to spend money, you need to make more, you know enough where you can have somebody else work the lead even, you know, so that's why Zillow's becoming more challenging because they've priced teams out of Zillow basically. So. Yeah. But I, I do feel blessed that I was in Charlotte, you know, to do this. Because we still have, we live in Weddington or Waxall Weddington area, which is a little bit outside of center city, but we were driving home the other day and it was an area that we'd never been in and it was complete farmland. Like I was like, where are we? And I just told my wife to pull up her phone and I look up epicenter uptown and she thought it was 20 now she thought it was like 37 miles from uptown. I thought it was 28. We were 17 miles from uptown. And I was like, holy cow. Like that's the kind of market that we live in. You know, there's still 10 years of growth for us here. You know, you look at Atlanta, you know, triple the size.
JON: Wow. So how do you train newer members of your team?
LARS: You know, I was just doing, in our coaching group, I do this Monday motivation and you know, I've talked a lot about, you know, what separates someone like a successful person in the thing from a not successful person. And usually it comes down to something in their routine. You know, it's not rocket science. Like we have people come on our team and they're super successful and then we have people come on our team and they're less than a year on the team and what we do doesn't work. You know, they typically don't commit to a daily schedule and getting good at the thing and realizing that it's not real complicated. We have all the systems set up where you just need to get good at having conversations and knowing that that's the path to getting you paid and the better you can get at mastering the craft of having conversations with different lead sources and knowing that it's a numbers game, you're going to start out with 70 conversations to lead to a set appointment, but we're going to get you to 35 you know, it's going to suck at 70. To us there's a path, we have a very specific 90 day onboarding and it's, you know, first 30 days, it looks like this next 30 days it looks like this. The next 30 days you don't really get your position playbook until your third 30 days. So the first 60 days is just getting you comfortable on the phone and the skill set of having conversations and just the cadence, the daily cadence. And that's it. And that's, that's like that for everyone. If you're going to have a successful podcast, it's probably going to take you a thousand episodes, you know, and I'm only on like episode 90 on my podcast and I know that like a hundred downloads is great because it's a hundred people listening, but some people will get totally discouraged on episode 90 if only, you know, or the initial, you know, excitement of the podcast wore off and now it's the real real time to do the work. Most people want to think real estate's something different than it is.
LARS: You know, there's only so much sphere that you have. Like you can't scale a business on people that know you. I mean you can build an okay business that way, but generally, you know, you need to have fresh business coming through always.
JON: So how do you, how do you recommend for agents to scale their business like you've done? How do you start?
LARS: Well, I mean our agents and our team have the ability to plug into our system. So I don't think doing, I think there's a clear divide coming where it's going to be tough to do it all on your own. Provide a world class service to buyers and sellers to have all the leads you need to, to do new business development consistently to do all the listing management contract to closing. Like it's just becoming really competitive just in the service of helping buyers and sellers. So we train. So in Real Estate B School, we train agents how to scale their business on our team. We plug them into our systems and they just do the schedule that we put out for them to get good at the skills that we require. And our lead agents will, you know, they closed, three of them closed over 3 million combined, you know, so we run, you know, and they have lots of help so they're not carrying the whole ball down the field themselves. Yeah. There's lots of positions that feed into what they do. But it's just, it's giving them now on our team, it's, it's taking the stuff away from them that doesn't add to another transaction. Like they need to go find another transaction versus worry about the repair request on the transaction, so we took repair requests off their plate. Anything involving appraisal in negotiations, we have a licensed contractor. Close person is a good example of keeping them in their sweet spot. Now if you're a wide receiver, I don't need you, you know, sitting flat lining up next to the center and trying to block a beast of a linebacker coming through like you're going to, it's going to hurt every time.
JON: Play to your strengths.
LARS: Yeah, exactly.
JON: All right, so tell us about Real Estate B School. Why did you create it?
LARS: I mean it was 2013 and it was just when I had gotten, probably a couple of years after I figured out a way to build that business where it operated without me. I went from five days to three days to two days to one day and I pretty much haven't worked more than a day a week in my real estate business since. And it was painful and it wasn't pretty and it wasn't always profitable. And most of the time I felt like I didn't know what I was doing and I failed a lot and I wanted to share all that pain with others so they didn't have to endure it. You know. So Real Estate B School is not the sexiest thing, you know, but I'm going to be honest about what it takes to build a business in an effort to help you do it better than I did it. And I did it like I wouldn't change anything I did because I was profitable every year. I grew up, basically I got to the point where four or five years in, I was out of production, you know, but it wasn't as clean as it could have been in hindsight. And so part of me just wanted another crack and helping others do it more elegantly. You know, when I went through a million and I did 1.2 million GCI, my profit was only about 10 or 12% before taxes. Knowing the mistakes I've made, I've helped, I've got a guy that did 1.4, he was 600,000 when he started with me. He just did 1.4 and he took home 600 and he's 100% out of production. So, and he's in a market where his price point is about 200 grand. So it's not a high price point market, you know, so now I can train others to do it way more elegantly and way more profitably. Way less stressful than that. Then it took me to do it. And you know, we have guys that are doing 60 sides, you know, where they're like the conventionally successful top producing agent and we take them from that and you know, they're working 70 hours, only making 150 grand and you know, took a guy from 32 sides to 330 sides in four years and now he only works 20 hours a week and his business nets a seven figure net income.
LARS: You know, and so, it's just a path and not everybody does it. I was just commenting today when I went live in our group about, you know, like I said, what separates the people that do it from the people that don't do it, it's just consistency. Like if you don't want to do the thing, you've got to get good enough at the thing where you can hire someone else to do it, but most people won't even get good enough at the thing. And that thing usually is new business development. They don't commit the first three to four hours of their day to finding new business.
JON: All right, so talk about that a little. I mean, you mentioned how Zillow is kind of making it difficult to compete in that space? How do you produce high quality leads without buying them from somewhere like Zillow?
LARS: It depends where you are in your business. You know, we have a database at this point. You know, we did 1.2 million GCI from our database last year. Our goal this year is 1.5 million GCI from our database spending half the money. So we'll spend probably about 50 grand this year on the database giveaways and small events. Um, those sorts of things. I mean, that's the first place that, that you, you know, once you get established, you need to build the database. There are ways that we train on that. You know, there are open houses still work and we do them, you know, we do direct mail to expired and Fizbos that still works and we do it, you know, we'll probably do 800,000 this year from expireds and Fisbos.
LARS: You know, and that's just, you know, we don't have, we only have two people in our inside sales and we have four outside agents. We don't have this, it's not a huge team, but we'll do about three and a half million GCI this year. So people think it has to be this like huge business and it just, it doesn't have to be a huge business. I mean, like you said, it's just everyone playing to their strengths. And we've have, you know, yeah. And last year we got Facebook leads to work pretty well. We're not running them right now, but we spent about between 250 and $500 a month last year to generate about $75,000 in GCI.
LARS: And we're still closing Facebook leads on leads we generated last year. We shut it off because we've just decided we don't want home search leads right now. Zillow just got to the point where they priced, it's hard to make money on a Zillow lead. And they opened a physical office space in Charlotte and they have like probably a thousand inside sales agents now. They're straight up competing with us, you know, so it's like, that was 18 months ago, we got rid of Zillow, you know, and we still have the most reviews in the Carolinas and so we still get leads. People still still go on Zillow to find us, but we're shifting all of our efforts to like regular business review sites like Google, you know, we want to have more Google reviews this year, than Zillow reviews by the end of the year. And radio is challenging too. I mean, we spent about 20 grand a month on radio and it's increasingly difficult to get the kind of returns that we want to out of mass media because there's more agents on mass media end. Who the heck is listening to the radio? You know what I mean? People still do because we still get business from it, but very, yeah.
JON: So how do you see the industry changing in the next five years?
LARS: I'm often coaching too. Like I could tell you what I did to build my business to get it to where it is and like 20% of it matters, right? I mean you just look at any other industry that has experienced what we're getting ready to experience take. Like are there really successful financial advisors today. 100% there is, you know, did the technology completely like jack up that industry like way more than we've seen yet and we're getting ready to see that. And a whole bunch of deep discount model is just like the financial services industry. So it comes down. So for us it's, you know, we need to focus on being the best provider of buyer and seller real estate services where we can justify getting paid $15,000 as a buyer agent. Not because the listing agent negotiated ahead of time with the seller where we can sit down a buyer and say, this is what we do and this is why we deserve to get paid 3% of $500,000. You know, and buyers aren't really convinced of that at all. That's why they go on Zillow. They'll go to an open house and they'll be like, they'll start looking at homes with that agent. They don't actually interview buyers agents. So the advice we give now is you better make sure that you are the premium version of the thing you want to do, otherwise you're going to be competing with. Um, so we have open door, got this in the mail, uh, cost of selling a home open door. You know why selling a home often costs more than 6%. And then we have open door has like 240 active listings in our market because they bought 240 ohms. Yeah. And you know, uh, what's the other one? Um, offer pad. Uh Huh. But when I looked at one of them, I pulled up one of their listing inventory, one out of the 200 we're under contract, which means they crazy overpaid for the under other 200 and they're, they're literally not moving. One of them had about 20% of their inventory under contract. We have 50% of our inventory under contract. So you can see like, you know, and they're listing it right above where they paid. So it's just their, their profit optional companies that you can't compete with. So the agents that are going to instant offer, you know, as a way to combat open door. I just don't, I don't think that's the way to go. I think the way to go is that, you know, uh, have you ever read the book Donald Miller, Miller building a StoryBrand?
JON: No, I haven't.
LARS: It's basically shifting your business from like, we are the thing, you know, me, me, me to like you, you are the hero. Like to showcase your clients. Yup. And their, and their struggle and why we came along and expired and they were uneasy. Their family broke a park as a husband. Couldn't be with the, you know, tell that story, tell, tell something how we came in and we helped them and we were the guide to, to their problem. And uh, and it's really, it's changed 100% how we market ourselves and a hundred how he'd take testimonials a hundred percent how we run our events, 100% how we deliver services. You know, our goal is to get a referral before we close from every client we work with to get a referral, a quality referral before we close that client because we're going to do such a great job that you can't help but talk about us. And that wasn't the way that I ran the real estate team for the first 2000 transactions. Hmm. You know, it was just total treadmill, let's just get it done. So, but it's the same way, you know, communicating with people the way they want it to be communicated with.
JON: You know, it's the human aspect of it that seems to be where real estate agents are still going to be essential because I know there's offer pad there. Zillow, and Amazon has made a few moves into potentially getting into the real estate game, but they don't have the, they can't answer all those questions. That can't be the sort of therapist that is sometimes necessary have an agent.
LARS: Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, for a loan officer, I feel really scared. Like they're serving the same industry, but it's, there's no real emotion around the loan, right? At least with the house. Like we could be the one opening up the front door to the place where they're going to raise a family, like talking. There's no other more intimate moment you can have with a client. You know, and selling is a little bit more transaction driven, but still it's like having an honest conversation. What if you're wrong? Like what if you're wrong about trusting this other agent and overpricing your property? What is plan B? If you're sitting past six months from now, you know, giving them real advice and not being a chat attached to the commission check. Yeah. So yeah. So I just think it's changing and it's, it's a lot of fun. It's a whole new approach to how we market and how we service our clients. So it's, it's a new game for sure.
JON: Hmm. That's interesting. And you were saying that, um, you're viewing it more of telling your personal story, like injecting that into your brand and that's different from a few years ago. Do you think that's just because that's how the industry has changed or is this something that you've learned in the last few years?
LARS: Yeah, I mean to me, no, I don't think the industry is, I mean I see a lot of the top teams going to like copying these guys, the offer pads and they open doors and all going to instant offer. You know, where we got completely away from that and we're just focusing on like if you go to our website, you'll feel like my website used to be a picture of me and how I can guarantee to sell your home or I'll buy it, you know? And now you go there and it's just talking about like real estate, just it could be easier and there's a better way and there's like a happy picture of family. And just it's as easy as one, two, three and press start here and we'll get the process started. And we're building out case studies on our website to showcase the work that we've done for real families. You know, so it's, it's not rocket science. It's been around forever, but it's not really happening in the real estate in the street all that much.
JON: And what do you think that is? I mean, real estate seems to be a little slow to adopt a new technology in general. Why?
LARS: I mean, I think it's because of who real estate, like the kind of people that real estate attract. You're typically, it's a fallback. It's not for a small percentage. Is it like the thing that you wanted to do? Like, oh, I'll just get my real estate license, whether you're a second income in the home or, you know, it's not like I got into real estate because I want it to get into real estate and, and I knew I wanted to build something that had a life outside of me. And I think like 90% of people in our industry, they, it's scary like that. They're handling. And that's the 90% that gives the whole industry a bad rap. Yeah. Like I, if you're smarter than your real estate agent about real estate, that's not good. You know? And they're just like, if you can't actually, and I feel like that's a, that's probably maybe nineties harsh, but a full 80 to 85% of our industry, I'd be scared to use them as a real estate agent. They just don't understand it, you know? And, and they're getting paid a lot of money to do very little on a transaction and there's so they need to commission check more than you need to buy the home or sell your home, you know, so it's not even, your interests aren't even aligned, you know? So yeah. And I've seen all of that. I've seen the bad side of that and agents not negotiating for their clients and not doing the best job they could for their clients. And that's why for new agents, my best advice for new agents is find a really good team and join it period. Like we have a $50,000 guarantee for your first year. On our team. 50,000 in our market is more than probably 80% of agents net in our market. So there's no risk whatsoever. And we guarantee you do our system and you'll make at least 50. The truth is when you do our system, you'll make 75 but we'll guarantee 50 or will pay the difference.
JON: So a new agent looking for a team, how do they know if a team is legit? How do they know if it's not just all smoke and mirrors?
LARS: Yeah, teams used to be that the team leader was just buying the leads and that and they were like paying for a boom town. If I were joining a team, I would look for a team that had a real culture and one that I fit with a team that did more than just provide leads. They had sort of a structure, a cadence. They provided like real coaching, like there's a structured coaching program, you know, we coach our agents not to be just better agents, but to, to, to live out, you know, other areas of their life at a high level. Um, and, and people that have fun doing it, you know, it's a tough, it's a tough, it's one of the toughest jobs I think there, there is, I liken it to financial services. When you get into, you become a financial advisor and the grind that that is like five years into or selling insurance, the grind that that is, you know, it only, it only feels good five years in. It doesn't feel good until you have a book of business. And real estate is kind of that way. You'd better make sure you do it with somebody, otherwise you will be adding the business. 82% of agents don't renew their second, their second renewal, you know, so finding the team and you will be successful, you know, and if you have a 25 year career in real estate, you want to build your own thing. Do your first five years on the team. Yeah. You could make, you know, $400,000 in five years if he joined the right team. And for most people that's more money they had made in the prior five years outside of real estate. So just be okay with that. You know, there's no making less money to think you're independent and you have your name on the sign is stupid, you know, so you're trading time for money. And in general we all do. You know, just make sure that you're on a path.
JON: That makes sense. All right. I've just got one more question. It's one that I ask of all of my guests: if you could go back to the beginning of your career, what is the one thing you would change?
LARS: One thing I would change if I could go back. Um, I generally am a, I never looked back kind of guy cause I sort of, I use everything to kind of build on the next thing. I think if I would've focused on talent, you know, there's, there's buyer, lead generation, seller lead generation, and then just everything you need to do to market and attract people to your mission. I would have focused on that and built that out world class. I feel like I'm playing such catch up there. Even now, you know, almost 4,000 transactions in that I feel like I could have been like worlds and ahead by building a, of recruiting a system to attract people to hire them properly, to onboard them properly. I think if once you get to a certain point that needs to be your focus, cause I had years where I didn't grow and it was because I didn't have a steady stream of talent coming in. That would have been the one thing I would've changed. Um, everything else. I mean, I think it was, it's just a lot of hard work, you know, and committing to a daily routine and ever regretted the daily routine. You know, I always, I, I did 12 to 15 hours of, of new business development every year until I didn't have to, you know, but that was when we did like 250 sites that year. That's what I didn't have to, it wasn't the year that I sold 22 homes and now I think I can let go of my daily routine.
JON: Great. All right. Lars, if somebody wants to learn more about you or Real Estate B School, where could they go?
LARS: Yeah. So if you're, I mean, if you're at the point where you've already achieved sort of conventional success. I mean, that's kind of where we take over. Just go to ReaEstateBSchool.com and there's no hard sell. It's literally getting on the phone for a strategy session to see if it's a good fit for you. So just go to Real Estate B School and the B stands for business. We do business coaching for real estate agents.
JON: Perfect. Thank you, Lars.
JON: That's it for this episode of Shop Talk. Thanks for listening. You can subscribe to us on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you enjoyed this episode, you should leave a review while you're there. Join us next time as we explore the topic of networking, why it's important for your business and how you can get better at it. Shop Talk is a production of The CE Shop.