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Shop Talk - The Real Estate Agent Podcast

Real Estate Agent Podcast 45: Chris Naugle

45: Chris Naugle
June 10, 2020

Chris discusses his money multiplier philosophy, centered around how wealthy people use their money differently than you’d expect.

I started looking at what wealthy people did with money. The way that they handled money was the complete opposite way that I was taught money worked. And I was an advisor.

Chris Naugle

About This Episode

Chris worked as a financial advisor before discovering the secret to using his money the same way Rockefeller and many other billionaires do. Since then, he’s hosted an HGTV show, created a home flipping business, and is today dedicated to becoming America’s best money mentor.

For a free book by Chris, visit

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Episode Transcript

JON: All right, Chris, thank you for joining me.

CHRIS: That's my pleasure. I'm happy to be here.

JON: So let's just start at the beginning. How did you get involved in real estate?

CHRIS: So I was a financial advisor. I did a lot of things, self employed and then financial advisor. But I remember as an advisor, every wealthy client that I had, they all were in real estate. And one way or the other, either they were solely in real estate or they were not, you know, indirectly associated with real estate, whether they were lending on real estate or they owned rentals, or there was always something that had to do with real estate. And I just saw this pattern I'm now I did this for 16 years, so well, just like anything else. I mean, if that's how they're getting wealthy and staying wealthy. And then the big thing for me was I'd been dabbling in real estate from 2006 to 2008. And in 2008, I was doing a strip mall. I was developing a three unit strip mall. That was a great idea. And I borrowed a lot of money doing it when the market crashed, because I had retail stores, skateboard, snowboard shops that I was going to do this, this plaza and moved my store into when the whole thing collapsed. I remember I almost lost it all and I just went bankrupt. It wasn't for my wife paying half the mortgage and the utilities and the, uh, the, we rented a bedroom out in our house. She wasn't even my wife, she was, my girlfriend, I had just met her. And I was so broke. I came home one day and I said, Hey, I need your help.

CHRIS: She just moved in. I said, can you help me pay the mortgage, the utilities? And can my friend Pete move into that bedroom down there? Cause I can't make it. But during this whole time, I remember I was still meeting with clients and I still seeing clients and all these clients that were in real estate. They weren't like down on their luck. They weren't like getting completely destroyed. They weren't losing everything. They weren't going bankrupt. They were making money. And I kept saying, what is it that you're doing everybody else's losing money. Everybody else's crying that they don't know how they're going to make it. And here you are like, you're making more. And he said, well, yeah, that's kind of what real estate does. And that's, that's when I was just like, bingo, I'm in, sign me up. How do I do this? And that's when I dove in, I didn't do it all right. I'm not going to lie to you. I made more mistakes than the average person, but that's at least that defining moment when I decided to dive in was 2009.

JON: Wow. Quite a time to jump in too.

CHRIS: Well, it was a good time to jump in. You can, you can buy properties, pennies on the dollar. Warren buffet always says it best right buy low, sell high and don't lose money. So I knew one thing I wasn't the real estate guru. I didn't have any of the experience. I did know, but I knew that real estate was pennies on the dollar. I had a good real estate agent, Anas who just took me under her wing. And she said, all right, this got to sell this eight unit. And here's how much he'll do it. And I said, offer him this great, got an eight unit.

CHRIS: This guy's gotta sell this four unit. And he's willing to sell it for this great offer them this. And it was just, it was almost too easy. It was kind of like really? Anas, he accepted that offer? Alright, great. Now, now, where am I going to find the money to do this deal? And that was the challenge. And, you know, cause I didn't have the money game figured out then. I matter of fact, I, I knew nothing about it. So I did all the money stuff wrong and we'll get to that part in a little bit. But I, I did that game where I me and Anas. We just went out and we bought apartments. Um, well I shouldn't say we, but she was my realtor and I bought apartments and I did that all the way up until 2014, I got up to 36 units and I'd buy them and I'd renovate them. My money I'd make in the financial advisory world or, or my retail shops, I would basically take and roll right back into each unit. It wasn't ideal. It socked. I was usually broke, you know, doing this cause every penny I made, went back into remodeling the next unit, but I made it through it. And then yeah, that's, that's how I, that's how I got started.

JON: Hmm. So you're also the co founder and CEO of FlipOut Academy. What do you do at FlipOut?

CHRIS: Nothing anymore, but in 2000. So flip out Academy, um, like is, is the leasor of this complex we're in, we have an 8,000 square foot office complex with an event center, 13 offices that we rent out and then our, our boardrooms and all of our corporate offices. Um, but flip out what it started as is, you know, let me kind of take you back a little. So remember the story of me buying all these apartment units up until 2014, I'd lost it all in 2009 or 2008. Then from nine to 14, I got all 36 units under my belt. Me and my, she was my fiance. Now the one that was helping me pay all the bills, uh, we bought our dream house. Like it would seem like things were going good. But then in 14 I brought my 37th unit to the bank, the same bank I'd been borrowing from the same bank that saved me from bankruptcy in 2008, by giving me the mortgage on that strip mall to buy out the private lender that I call knuckles. Not because he, well, you can figure that one out, but in '14. When I brought that to the bank, the bank said, you know what, Chris, like, we'd love to do more loans with you, but you don't fit in the little square box.

CHRIS: Your debt to income ratio is out of whack. You, we just can't give you this loan. And I didn't understand all this. I kind of did. He explained it to me and I'm like, Oh, that sucks. Okay. Well, I won't buy this one. Well, about a month later, not even, they froze my lines of credit because I didn't fit in their square box. So I had these lines of credit were my lifeblood that's the only way I was able to maintain and keep renovating these units was because of these lines of credit. When they froze those lines because I didn't fit in that little square box. It was a, it was game over. And I got, so I literally was to the point where I was living paycheck to paycheck. So in '14 I sold all 36 units. I was forced to sell my dream house that we had just couldn't I just couldn't make ends meet. And I was doing well, but I just wasn't well enough at that moment, that moment is when I kind of hit the rock bottom. That's when I was like, I'm doing it all wrong. And what I was doing is I was borrowing from the banks. It was a smaller community bank and they were being bought out by a big commercial. So that's what triggered this whole thing. So this big commercial bank Key Bank, and there was two of them that bought them out bottom all and why everything changed. But I didn't realize that by the way, I was taking these mortgages out, I was doing it in my personal name because I was playing the old game. Right? It was cheaper for me to take a personal mortgage than it was for me to do a commercial mortgage in the LLC. And I'm like, well, this is cheaper. Why wouldn't I just do this? And the mortgage broker is like, yeah, I don't know what doesn't matter to me, whichever one.

CHRIS: I had no idea that I should have been buying all of these properties in the entities name and just using commercial mortgages because then none of those properties would have hit my personal credit score. You see, that's what caused this whole problem. Buying properties in your personal name for a couple of them might seem good. But when you get to scale, you're dead, you're dead in the water and they could just cut you right off, which is what happened. And then, so at that moment, at that moment, when I hit that bottom, I realized I needed help. And I, I found help in the form of a postcard that came in the mail to come to this seminar to learn how to flip houses. So I went to this seminar and at that seminar, I learned what I didn't know. And I didn't know what I didn't know for sure. I met two mentors and I paid from that point on until the end of that, I paid about 80 grand to learn how to flip houses, learn how to do rentals, learn all about real estate through this education program and mentorship. And when I was all done with it, not that I didn't learn a lot, I kept asking myself, how was that worth $80,000? They gave me the education. It was all great, but like there was no application of knowledge. Every time I needed help, there was an add on cost. It was like, Oh, well you can buy more coaching time. Look, I already gave you guys 40 grand. Like why do I have to buy more coaching time? Well, that's just what it is.

CHRIS: So FlipOut Academy was formed in 2014, end of 14, early 15 to be the solution to what I didn't like about the education I went through. It was a results based education model, where we basically based all of our success on the results of our students. And we ran that successfully from 2014 to 2018, but 168 students run through with a 90. I think it was a 97% success rate now might be off 92 to 97% success rate. Success being the student, got their first deal done in insult. And in '18, there was so much competition in the market. Everybody had an education program. I just, I just wasn't passionate about it anymore. I just felt like I was doing the same thing everybody else. And at that point I had really mastered, mastered the money game in the money side of the business. So instead of teaching people how to flip houses, I started teaching people how to find money for their real estate deals and all the secrets about how money really works, the things I've learned on Wall Street and the things I learned by flipping 257 houses. That's what I started doing is focusing just on money and we stopped taking students in '18.

JON: Hmm. And so that kind of gets into your money, multiplier philosophy, right?

CHRIS: Money School and Money Multiplier. The two companies I operate today. Yeah. It's all about that. And I learned that in '14, remember those mentors? I said, I met at that first seminar. I continually kept working with those mentors. I'm now partners with one of them on all of our private, like I'm a partner in those, we're a partner and money school. So it's like my mentor became my partner, but that's pretty much where all this was created. It was, I kept looking at the market saying who's teaching money. And you know, there's the Kiyosakis who did a great job in his early years. And then he kind of went more of the real estate education side, but there was really no truth behind the secrets of how money works. And what I had had the luxury of doing is with the TV show, the HGTV show that we had and everything I was doing, I met a ton of very wealthy people being an advisor. I was always surrounded by wealthy people. And I started looking at what wealthy people did with money, whether it was, you know, my partner Greg, or whether it was Mike or whether it was some of these other people had been the way that they handled money, the way that they use money, the way that they got money was the complete opposite way that I was taught money worked.

CHRIS: And I was an advisor. So, you know, looking at everything that I was doing, I was a financial advisor and I'm being taught everything about money with this way. And these guys are using it the complete opposite way. So I said, you know, there's gotta be something to this. There's this is, there's gotta be some truth to one side or the other. And what I found is the financial advice that we're giving is self serving. When I was an advisor, I was taught to do certain things. And what I learned now that I'm not an advisor. I retired in '18 from the financial advisory world. And I learned that what we were taught to do was to maximize our compensation, to maximize the compensation for the brokerage and to not do what was always in the best interest of the client. But I would have never known that because if you guys could see me, I'll put a, I know this is audio only, but like I just put the rosy colored glasses on.

CHRIS: This is what it was like having an advisory, being an advisor. I had the rosy colored glasses on and I was fed this big lie. Well, the secrets of the wealthy and what all my books are and what all my trainings are, is to teach people the real truth about how money works. But the most important thing that we don't do with money and this, I know everybody's either going to agree or totally disagree with this. Nobody is in control of their money. And that's the biggest problem. We are taught our entire lives to give up control of our money. We're taught to put our money in 401k plans and retirement plans. And then someday later we're paid that money back. And the funniest thing is, is we're taught to literally give up control. Somebody else then makes money on our money. And then we leave our money in these mutual funds in these stock accounts. And that money bounces around not doing so good right now bounces around and we're paid back someday later, 59 and a half is the magic time. But one more paid back. Our good dollars. The dollars that we have today are most valuable dollars. We gave those up because your dollars every single day are worth less than they were, because well, think about it. How many candy bars could you have bought 20 years ago? The answer is more than today, way more than today, your money is always worth the most today. Yet we're taught to give up control of that good dollar today and put it somewhere in someone else's control. And then to be paid back with weaker that are taxed at a higher rate later because taxes go up.

CHRIS: So I started finding that these wealthy people, these multimillionaires, these billionaires, they were always in control of the money. Always. They didn't put their money in retirement plans, like we were taught to do. They use different vehicles to plan for retirement. They used real estate. They used mutually owned insurance companies to use to house their money instead of banks. And I, you know, the one thing I never could understand this wasn't universal with every single multimillionaire and billionaire. But what I always found is I was always surprised at how little money that these wealthy people kept in bank accounts. You know, I'd get their statements and I'd be like, Holy cow, man, this guy's only got that much in his bank account. No, seriously. Like back then, I was like, what am I missing? Like, but then I'd look at his assets and I'd be like, he's got $10 million in real estate. He's got, you know, $5 million over here. And then he's got this insurance like this, this mutual, this insurance column on here. And cause it was always, I was looking at a personal financial statement and they had tons of money sitting in mutually owned insurance companies. And that money was in these specially designed, because remember I was an advisor I knew, or I thought I knew what this was. These specially designed whole life plans that weren't designed for life insurance. They were designed for banking. And I had no concept of this. I had heard of this as an advisor. It was called BOLI, which stands for bank owned life insurance and COLI, stands for companies owned life insurance. But I never knew what it really was until I really dove in. And my friend Mike, that one mentor, I told you, started telling me about it. He's telling me how he's using it to lend money to real estate investors and how his money always continued to earn interest even when he was using it.

CHRIS: So think about that for a second. Right? This guy I'm sitting at the Cheesecake Factory in Salt Lake City. Literally I'll never forget this day. And he's telling me about this thing. It was me and my friend, Jack and Mike. And Mike's one of my big lenders. He lent me most of the money for a lot of our properties. And he's telling me where this money came from. He he's like, I don't know, it's this whole life thing that this guy built for me and I do this and I do that. And he's telling me this whole thing. And I'm like, Mike buddy, someone's blowing a lot of something up your butt. Cause it doesn't work that way. I'm an advisor. Look at me, Mr. Chris, like I got the suit, I got all the suits. Like it doesn't work that way. And he looks at me, kind of leans over the table. And he says, Chris, if it doesn't work that way, how have I been lending on all your deals? He said, it works exactly like that. I'm like, so Mike, let me, let me get this straight buddy. You've got money in these mutually owned insurance, whole life policy thingamajigs that are paying a dividend. And when you lend money, you take money from your insurance policy and you give it to me and I pay you 12%, but you never stopped earning interest in dividends on your money even though you took it out of your account. He's like precisely. He's like, I can't tell you exactly how that works. But he says, all I know is my money sits in the insurance company. They pay me a guaranteed 4%. Plus I get a dividend every year. And when I take money out, when I need money, I click a button. The money shows up in my bank account and I'm not using my own money. My money is just acting as collateral. I'm actually borrowing money from the insurance company's general account. But the insurance company is so nice. They're giving me that money at a lower interest rate than what they're paying me. So I'm making pure arbitrage. I'm making a spread on this money, even though you're paying me 12%, and thank you for that. But the insurance company is also paying me. And at that moment, at that moment, my head exploded. And I said, Mike, you gotta tell me how this works. He's like, well, I don't really know how it works. I'm just using it. He said, but call this guy, Brent. I'm like, give me his number, hurry up, give it to me.

CHRIS: I called Brent. And you know, I wish I recorded this call cause I must have sounded like the biggest pompous arrogant son of a pup ever because I called Brent up and I'm like, Brent, you got to tell me about this banking system. This, this money multiplier thing. Like Mike Baird just told me all about it. I should have probably given his name. Mike Baird just told me all about it. And, and like, I know what these things are. I'm an advisor 14 years, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, okay, great. I'd love to tell you about it, but you got to watch my video first. And I'm like, well, no, no, no, I get it. I understand it. I'm just like, tell me, how do I do this? He's like, you got to watch my video and it's 90 minutes long. And I remember that. I'm like, I don't want to watch a 90 minute video, but sure enough, I was bound and determined. I got my big cup of coffee. I walked my butt down in my basement. I put the video on, I didn't even, like a second into that video. I took maybe one sip of that giant cup of coffee. As soon as that video started, I started learning how banks were using this. I learned what the Rockefellers did when they started using insurance companies instead of banks. I started learning all the secrets that I never knew. I kinda knew, but I didn't know that banks made 400 to 1300% on the money I left there. I learned how banks operated. And then I started seeing why the wealthy were using mutually owned insurance companies. Not only because they're safer than banks, but because the way that they were earning money on it and having full liquidity of their money, that's why they did it. And at the end of this video, I had four pages of notes. I had not touched my coffee. I was ready to go. I was like, sign me up, coach. So I got my first banking policy started with him and that was where it began.

CHRIS: And literally it has been the most incredible ride ever since that moment, because in the beginning I was just using it for myself to get out of debt. And then after I got out of debt, I started using it to buy real estate. And after I started using it to buy real estate, I started lending money from my policies. I just mimicked what the wealthy did, but I did it using this secret that has been around for 200 years used by the banks and the wealthiest people like the Rockefellers, like Ray Kroc, Walt Disney, Stanford University. I could go on and on and on, but they've all been using this. We all know what they do, but we never actually peeled the onion to figure out how they do what they do. And when I figured that out and I was that's where it all began. Sorry, I went long on that, but that was just, that's the only way I can tell that story, man.

JON: That's great. That's a, that sounds like quite an epiphany.

CHRIS: It was. The epiphany continues every single day. I mean, today I've got six banking policies every year. I add one, cause I want to put more money into them. And every second of every day, I'm trying to find ways to use that money. Now, do I buy another rental? Do I lend it out? And I've got a whole lending community and money school that I've created or it's I train people how to be good borrowers and good lenders. Think of eharmony, right? The dating app. I've created a community for lenders and borrowers that works like eharmony. You come in, we teach you how to be a good lender or a borrower through a four week class. And then after that, you basically are given a standard operating procedure on how your deals get submitted. And if you're a lender, you know that the borrowers in this community have been educated and everybody knows the same thing. So it's, it's like eharmony and everybody's got a profile. So this person can look for a date over on this side, the lenders and the borrowers come together through profiles and they do business. And it's, that's where I land. I lend all my money to my community. So I just take loans for my banking policies. I lend it to these people at 12% with three points. I take the money, I put it back in the banking policy, up to the IRS limits. And then I just start another one. That's and I've been doing this, this little racket for years. I tell people about it and they don't even believe me.

CHRIS: An NFL player. Like I started talking to him about a month ago and I told them about this. And he's like, that's impossible. He said, that sounds way too good to be true. How is it that I can have money in an account, take that money and still earn interest on that money. I said, because you're not using your money. He's like, well, whose money am I using? The insurance company's money. And why would they just give me money? Do I need to fill out an application? I said, no, you just click a button on your online portal. And the money shows up in your account, 36 hours later. He's like, it doesn't make any sense. So I'll make an, how much am I making? I said 4% plus a dividend. So over 6% and how much are they charging me to use their money? 5%. So you're making a percent to 1.2% on your money at all given times. There's no taxes on it. There's no fees for taking the money outside of the interest you pay. And then the magical thing is, is when somebody takes a loan from someone, you know, we're so trained that we have to always pay those loans back. Right? But what if you didn't have to pay a loan back? What if you could take money from your banking policy, and essentially it's the insurance company's money and the insurance company gives you the money. And then if you get into a deal and it goes bad and you can't pay that loan back. Oh well, oh well. And that's where he got blown away. He's just like, that doesn't make any sense. I said, yes, it does.

CHRIS: Someday that insurance company has made a promise to you, contractually that when you die - I'd like to call it graduate. When you graduate, they are going to pay a death benefit to someone in your family, your beneficiary. So if you don't pay those loans back to the insurance company, the insurance company just says, no big deal. We're just going to subtract that from your death benefit, you're literally leveraging your death benefit. That's all you're doing. So you could keep taking money from the insurance company. Never pay it back. Not, not what I suggest. And then someday when you graduate, they just take it from your death benefit. I mean, what a novel idea, right? You get to leverage the insurance company's money. You get to make guaranteed interest rates on your money. You get to do this all tax free. And the best part is you have full liquidity of your money.

JON: Wow. So you mentioned opening new accounts. Why have multiple accounts? Can you just put more money into one?

CHRIS: Well, no, you can't. That's the problem. The IRS back in 1988 changed the rules. Oil tycoons were putting billions of dollars into these vehicles because they learned what they were and they're like, Oh yeah, guys, Hey, let's put all of our money into these. And they did. And it was allowed. And in 1988, the IRS changed the rules and they limited how much money we could put into these vehicles based on the death benefit that we have. So it's called the mac seven pay rule. It's a limit for how much money we can put into the plans based on the amount of death benefit that plan has. So the reason you can't, you have so many of them. I have six. My mentor Brent has 19, is because every single time I set one of these plans up, I pick how much I want to deposit. So let's say I set one up and I wanted deposit. I don't know. Let's just say 10 grand. I set it up at 10,000. That gives me the ability to fund it at 10,000 every single year. Now, if there's a year that comes up, that I only have six grand. Great. I can reduce it, but I can never go higher than 10 because it's built at the IRS limits. So a year down the line, I want to put 15,000 into my plan. I can't, I can only put 10 in. So there comes branch office number two. And how I would explain this to most people is if you had a bank, cause that's what you're doing. You're creating your own bank. If you had a bank and you only had one of them, you'd only be able to raise so much in deposits based on the people around you. Right? So what do banks do? They open branch offices. Well, we do the same thing here. We just open branch offices to house more and more and more money as our life permits us to save more money. That's it.

JON: Wow.

CHRIS: Oh, I could keep going. I had to stop there cause I don't want to just keep talking about this. Cause the, the biggest thing that we do is we show people how to pay off debt. Using this system, by being the bank, we show people how to get all the money back for all the cars they're ever going to buy driving home. But I'm going to give a book away to all your audience for free that's going to teach them how to get all the money back for every car they ever buy, drive and own and how to reduce their debt in a third of the time without working any harder, without working any longer, without taking on any risk and without losing control of 1 cent of their money.

JON: That is quite an offer. Sounds nice. So you also, you mentioned it a minute ago, but you also managed to get a show on HGTV called Risky Builders.

CHRIS: We did.

JON: Can you share the story behind that?

CHRIS: Absolutely. And it's all right within the same story you heard, remember that, that seminar, I went to the one guy, Mike, he had a show on Annie and I remember we were at the big seminar at that education company we went through and I remember watching to two stars that we love to HGTV stars, get up on that stage and give their dog and pony show. And I looked at my wife and I said, sweetie, for ever going to get on that stage, we have to have a show. Now I was a pro snowboarder back my day. So I did lots of filming films, lots of video parts. So I had kind of a knowledge of filming and doing this. So I hired my buddies that used to do snowboard films for me. We got together and our concept back then, which was called, hence the name flip out our TV shows, original working title was flip out and what it was, it was a concept of using Tarek and Christina's Flip or Flop, okay. That model for flipping houses, with Jackass skateboards, you know, and all that stuff. So imagine that right. Flipping houses with Jackass. That was our original concept. So we filmed this whole concept and we started this in 2015 and we didn't get our show aired until when did we air? 2018, I believe it was. So during that whole time, from 15 to 18, we were putting together the pilots. We were getting turned down by every single network HGTV, A&E, Bravo.

CHRIS: They all turned this concept down cause it was too risky. Then we finally the producer, we had Candace and we, we almost gave up, but we got a new producer and that producer came from Mike, my friend, he referred me to his guy and they loved the concept, but they said, Hey guys, the reason you got shut down by everybody, as you see, remember, well, I'm going to relate it to my little square box with banks, but networks have little square boxes and they want you to fit in that little square box. And you guys do because you're this cute girl and you're this crazy snowboard guy and your buddy Blair over there, here's your contractor. He's a bit loopy too. So let's throw him in the mix. So they did that. And we, we filmed for a year. We got the whole pilot done and voila. We got picked up by HGTV. We aired six times and HG got bought by discovery. And during that whole thing, we didn't go on to then, to the season. So that was it. I mean, game over, but it was an awesome ride. It was a really cool experience. Uh, I don't know. It changed a lot of things in our lives.

JON: That's awesome. That's very cool. Yeah. That's a great, that's a great pitch. Home flipping with Jackass. How could they, I liked it, man.

CHRIS: I liked it, but they pass. They all shut us down.

JON: So many people get into real estate to achieve the goal of achieving financial freedom. What should new agents be doing in their say their first year and in their first five years?

CHRIS: The first year they, they certainly should be really learning a lot. I mean, watching what their customers want and being a servant to what their customers want solve their customer's problems. And if you do that and then as you're doing that, you learn how solving those problems, gets you your end result. Then I think the biggest thing that we could learn, and this is the biggest thing my wife would say is, as you're doing this, start learning how to be a good investor yourself. Don't just be a realtor. Learn how to be an investor because being a realtor, you're always in the business of selling something, right? And if you're in the sales business, you live and die by the sale. Well, what happens like right now in COVID-19 when there's a quarantine and no one can show houses. Now, if this quarantine continued, that would hurt realtors bad because you can't actually go do your job. So the biggest thing I would say is find a way to take your profession, your love of real estate of selling or whatever it is you're doing. And turn it into mailbox, money, create passive income by doing what you're doing by buying real estate. I mean, don't just sell real estate, be what you do, what you're saying you're doing, or do what you're doing, but do it for your own life. Buy rentals. I think that's the biggest thing flipping. I dunno. I mean, I flipped enough houses to know that it's nothing but a pain in the butt, but rentals will provide that cash flow that, that turnkey mailbox money that really will change your life. And when you hit hard times, you can always fall back on that passive income. So I would say, you know, for a new or an experienced realtor, if all you're doing is focusing on selling, just realize what happens when you can't sell anymore, or what happens when Zillow or one of these iBuyers comes in and sweeps in. And all of a sudden your customers don't need you anymore because they've got a computer that can do the same thing. I'm not trying to paint the future, but they are trying to change the future. And they're being the whole realtor world is being disrupted right now by Zillows, by these iBuyers that are swooping in and they can do a lot more than what we realized they can do because they've got unlimited money behind them. So get ahead of the curve and start creating mailbox money, and also solve people's problems.

JON: What financial mistakes do you think the average person makes the most often?

CHRIS: Well, number one, the most often thing they do is they give up control of their money. They put money in places where they don't have access to it, or they put it all in the bank. When the bank just goes out and makes money on your money and you have no access, you have access to your bank, money in your bank, but it does you no good. You're not making anything on it. So your money is not working for you. The number one problem I see everybody make is they don't know how to make their money work for them. They know how to go out and earn a living. A lot of people, especially today, people know how to hustle. People know how to go out and make a lot of money. But what they don't know how to do is make their money work for them. And if they would just learn how to put their money to work and make that money work harder for them, they wouldn't have to work as hard and they'd make more money doing that because we're so busy being busy in our lives to make more money. If we would just take a step back and slow down a bit and just learn some secrets, some things that the wealthy do, cause I'm just all about like mimicking wealthy people or mimicking success. And then we just, just took a little bit of time out and use that time to then start creating a mechanism to make that money work for us so that we don't have to keep going out and hustling and doing what we do. Our lives would be a lot easier. Plus we'd be a lot more focused because we wouldn't wake up every day worrying, how am I going to pay my bills? How am I going to make the car payment? Especially right now, this is a learning lesson. What just happened with COVID-19 is a wake up call. The reset button has been hit. Now it's time to take your canvas and create whatever it is you really want your life to look like.

JON: So do you think right now during this pandemic is a good time to start investing?

CHRIS: Absolutely. I think it's a bit early. I don't think when you say investing, do you mean in real estate?

JON: Yes.

CHRIS: Okay. Okay. I just want to make sure we weren't talking stocks here. Um, so if you're talking real estate, I think it's a bit early. I think if you can look back in the past and mimic a little bit about what happened in 2008 or '09, or what happened early two thousands, or even, you know, the eighties and the nineties, you can get a good representation of what's going to happen. Real estate's a lagging indicator. The stock market went down, but real estate is still sitting pretty, pretty high right now. I'm in real estate selling really good. Most realtors are still having lots of success with their listings, but don't get comfortable there because I'll tell you something. If you look at the facts of what's going on, 33 million people out of work and climbing. Main street's still closed people, can't open their businesses. And even if they are opening their businesses, they're not at capacity or they're definitely not doing what they did. America is suffering and it's only the beginning and it's going to get worse. And as it gets worse, real estate values because they're a lagging indicator will start to correct. And, and I'm just, I'll make some predictions. I think in the single to four unit space, you'll see single digit drops. I don't think it's going to be like 2008 and '09, but you're gonna see high single digit drops. But I think you're going to see a major contraction in the multi unit space. There is so many people that overpaid for multi-units during the low, the last little bull run that we had. And because they overpaid, they're going to need to do some cut and run on some of these because if they have vacancies because Hey, why would some tenants pay rent when they don't have to pay rent? Right now, tenants are paying rent, but that's because the government just gave them stimulus. What happens when stimulus dries up? What happens when their job doesn't come back that they're furloughed on? What happens when their income stops and they're there two weeks or two months of savings dries up? Are they going to pay rent? No, if you live in New York, like where we're at the government pretty much is saying, Hey, don't pay your rent. Who cares? They can't evict you. Like, it's a joke here, but you guys probably aren't in New York. Thank God.

CHRIS: But anyway, you know that, and when that happens, you're gonna really see drops in prices. And I definitely see, and I've talked to a lot of smarter people than me, and they've all said the same thing, double digit drops in the multifamily space. So is this going to create an opportunity? 100%, but it's only going to create an opportunity for people that see this as an opportunity, because some people are seeing this as an obstacle and they're so focused on the negative aspects. So focused on the things that don't matter, that that are right in front of them. Yes, it's hard, but they're not focused on what it actually can be for them. This could be the biggest opportunity of most people's lives, if they see the opportunity and they go after it. Some people are just gonna bury their head in the sand and they're just going to get run over and they're never going to catch up.

JON: Oh, well, I think that's a good place to stop. I just have one more question for you. And it's when I ask of all of my guests, if you could go back to the beginning of your career and change one thing, what would it be?

CHRIS: Very easy. I would have it, it comes back to a statement that Will Rogers makes, and he says the biggest problem in America is not what people don't know. It's what people think. They know that just ain't. So if I could go back, I would stop. I would have stopped with the ego. And I would have basically realized that I didn't know what I thought that I knew and I would have really been more open-minded to learning. And that would be the biggest thing I would've changed. I would have really learned more. I would have gotten mentors sooner. I would have gotten education sooner. That would have been the biggest thing that would have changed and catapulted what I'm doing today.

JON: Hmm. That's a great answer. All right, Chris. Well, thank you for coming on. If somebody wants to learn more about you, how would they do that?

CHRIS: Sure. So they can go to my website. It's So N-A-U-G-L-E or social media. I'm all over Instagram and Facebook. And it's just my name. Instagram's Chris underscored Naugle and uh, you know, you can find everything from there, but the other thing too, let's not forget to give them the book, the mapping out the millionaire mystery. So I'm going to give every one of your audience, this book for free, you guys just pay the shipping and this book will teach you what I learned back in 2014 and 15, that will change your life. I promise you.

JON: Awesome. And how do they get that book? Sure.

CHRIS: Just go to So money, school, forward slash new book. And then you'll get the link. You just click it. The book is 100% free. You just pay the shipping and out it goes.

JON: Awesome. All right, Chris. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you.